I recently had a fun online conversation in a process theology fb group with a Whiteheadian influenced thinker named Kyle Humphres (Kyle’s post is here ((joining the group may be required to read the post… not really sure))). At one point during the dialogue Kyle made this claim about human societies:
“Society in America is an ‘aggregate’ because it doesn’t have a unity of experience like a cell or human being. That the emergence of groups, organizations, and society is mediated by language and so is an abstract system made up of concrete living subsystems called human beings. With this understanding we cannot apply a whiteheadian understanding of living societies (atom-human) to groups of organisms because they are not connected in the same way.”
I think Kyle makes a good observation here; human societies don’t necessarily have a unified self-conscious experience like individual humans have. Kyle indicated to me that he staunchly believes that the universe’s unity, for example, can only exist as an interconnected web at the micro-level, and if the universe had any experience of it’s own it would be unconscious, i.e. we see no empirical evidence that the universe is self-conscious like humans are because for that type of subjective, self-conscious experience to appear it would at least require (as far as we know) complex organization (which most likely includes abstract symbolic language of some kind) at the macro-level with a dominant personal society (basically: the universe is too disintegrated to be self-conscious; perhaps if it had a brain and central nervous system like humans have it might be a different story).
Like I said, good observations. I’d like to make a few more observations too:
1) Echoing Whitehead, I think that what John Cobb and Charles Birch observe in their book, The Liberation of Life, is important: “A cell, unlike a stone, has an inherent unity and cellular events are constituted by a new level of internal relations with their environment. This means that a cell has experience of its world in some dim way analogous to our own…”
2) Along with Charles Hartshorne, I think it’s important to point out that there are different types of living societies in the world and some of these other types of societies may be similar in some ways to human societies.
3) There are other living organisms on Earth, besides humans, that talk to each other and we might be mistaken to assume that the intensity of experience open to humans is not also open to them.
First, let’s get some terminology out of the way:
I like to use the basic terms of “living entity” and “inert entity” to refer to living things versus non-living things; an example of a living entity would be a plant (or an animal), and an example of an inert entity would be a rock. As far as I can tell, Whitehead talks about four major kinds of societies: enduring objects, corpuscular societies, structured societies, and living societies.
An enduring object is the simplest kind of society in Whitehead’s scheme, a molecule might be an example. Enduring objects are made up of little events that prehend or envelop each other, one after the other, thus creating a connective thread that lasts through time. These sorts of entities appear to be pretty repetitive and mechanical as there is very little aim at novelty or at the increase of harmony or intensity of experience.
Enduring objects, then, form the building blocks of everything that is around us. Corpuscular societies, for Whitehead, would be inanimate objects such as rocks or chairs. Clare Palmer, in her book Environmental Ethics and Process Thinking, does a great job describing what Whitehead means by “structured societies”:
“Enduring objects and corpuscular societies both exhibit what Whitehead calls ‘structure’. Structured societies contain smaller societies and nexus within them, which Whitehead calls ‘sub-societies’ and ‘sub-nexus’. A table, for instance, contains a structure of ‘sub-societies’ in the form of molecules. A table, However, is a very simple kind of structured societies. The repetitious nature of actual occasions which compose it mean that it persists through time, and through changing environments, by failing to absorb any of the changes which go on around it. This repetition in the face of change may enable the corpuscular society to persist, but it prevents it from generating novel and deeper experience. ‘Its parts merely transmit average expression, and hence the structure survives. For the average is always there, stifling individuality.’”
Living societies come is all shapes and sizes; the simplest kind, perhaps, is the living cell. It is a structured whole, with personal order, and is composed from smaller sub societies and sub nexus of molecules and electrons (which are “enduring objects” but not “living”). Humans are also living societies and so are plants. Famously, however, Whitehead believed that because plants lack a central nervous system and don’t “think” they are more of a “democracy” than a “monarchy” because plants are composed of a societies of cells that appear to be democratically organized, with each being equal to the others. Humans, on the other hand, seem to be guided by a dominant personal society, thus the comparison to a “monarchy.”
Now, to Hartshorne.
I think Charles Hartshorne is right when he says that Whitehead’s societies exhibit differing degrees of closeness but also correctly observes that he (Whitehead) does not make any distinctions between different types of society. Hartshorne does, and this is important. Hartshorne uses “organism” instead of “society” to talk about this stuff (he distinguishes between “organisms” and “quasi-organisms”; both are societies) and in his essay A World of Organisms he says this: “My suggestion is that any whole which has less unity than its most unified parts is not an organism in the pregnant sense here in question,” so an electron, or a human, which are both more unified than their most unified parts, are organisms; while a plant, which is less unified than its most unified parts (its cells) is a quasi-organism. Hartshorne attributes intense individuality to the society called “organisms” (humans, cells) and intense plurality to the society he calls “quasi-organisms” (plants). Because of this Hartshorne believes that we, humans, can more easily identify with an electron than with a plant because electrons are individuals in the sense that they are more unified than their most unified parts; a plant, in contrast, Hartshorne compares to a human city. And I think Hartshorne’s analogy here is a good one.
Unaware of Hartshorne’s likening of a plant to a human city, I made the same analogy during my online discussion with Kyle. Now, I do part ways with Hartshorne and Whitehead a bit here apparently because although Hartshorne clarifies some of Whitehead’s categories, he seems to end up in the same boat with Whitehead thinking of human societies as merely aggregates with no interests of their own; for example, as Kyle reminded me, Whitehead famously says this:
“There is no one American value experience other than the many experiences of individual Americans” (Essays in Science and Philosophy pg.52)
Hartshorne would probably say something similar. Although he would liken a plant to a human city in the sense that they’re both types of concrete living societies, he would probably also say that a plant and a human city have no interests of their own save for the interests of their parts (which is what Whitehead is saying directly above). I disagree. I would want to say, as Brian Henning does in his great book, that a plant (and I personally would also describe a city this way) “is a vast network of societies that work as a whole to form a macroscopic individual with ‘objective interests’ of its own. Its ends may be frustrated or satisfied. Unlike an aggregate entity such as a stone, a blade of grass has ends that may be frustrated or satisfied; for instance, it may have greater or lesser access to the sun or nutrient-rich soil.” The same is true for a city. For example, Flint Michigan (a human society) has needs/ends that may be frustrated or satisfied, in this case clean water. And, as Henning points out in his book (citing Fredrick Ferre), “some plants are capable of defending themselves as a whole, receiving stimuli when attacked and responding with toxins or other defenses in appropriate ways… Plants may turn out to have more tightly organized internal relations than traditional botany has suggested.” That last bit in italics (emphasis mine) is important. Human communities/societies work together: to accomplish goals, to defend themselves, and to help each each other. I’d wager that the internal relations of human societies are more tightly organized than our American, protestant, individualistic mind-frames would lead us to believe.
Henning goes on, continuing to cite Ferre’s book: “[a tomato plant] uses an electric signal to alert its defense system against grazing caterpillars. Attack on one leaf results in chemical antidigestants being produced in others, slowing the grazing process, thereby longer exposing the caterpillars to predators of their own.”
Additional commentary by Henning here: “If we are to honestly meet our obligation of education, we must be willing to admit that some plants may be sufficiently complex to support a form of personal society that provides some degree of central coordination. If this is true, the difference between plants and animals may not be quite as neat as the distinction between “democratic” and “monarchic” societies implies. Thus I agree with Ferre, who writes, ‘From a metaphysical point of view, the distinction between them [plants and animals] is far less interesting than the great similarities that unite them as innovative, responsive, creative systems.’ If plants are indeed more complex than previously recognized, then the intensity of experience open to them is greater than previously realized and we must modify our behavior toward them accordingly.”
Henning’s right. If plants are more complex than we thought then we should modify our behavior of course, but also our theories, perhaps in particular the (anthropocentric) assumption that says humans, with their stupid brains, central nervous systems, “self-awareness” and monarchic societal structures, are the only creatures around enjoying/enduring intense, novel experience; it’s actually no wonder why we have lunatics like Jordan Peterson running around claiming hierarchy and inequality are inherent, unchangeable parts of nature. Humans need to get over themselves! Perhaps, if we’re more sensitive, and attempt to understand the multifarious ways that various life forms on Earth communicate and cooperate with each other it will give us a much broader sense of what “life on Earth” is truly about. Perhaps trees and plants can teach us how to be proper democracies. Maybe we should learn from the trees and from the indigenous people who have been telling us this exact thing for hundreds of years:
“Do you know that trees talk? Well, they do. They talk to each other, and they’ll talk to you if you listen. Trouble is, white people don’t listen. They never learned to listen to Indians so I don’t suppose they’ll listen to other voices in Nature. But I have learned a lot from trees: sometimes about the weather, sometimes about animals, sometimes about the Great Spirit.” -Tatanga Mani or Walking Buffalo, Stoney Indian, Canada (1871-1967)
Amen.
Neither Henning or Ferre addressed Human Societies that I am aware of. (I own both books) Harthornes view of humanity was even lower than Whiteheads, his psudeo-organic view of humanity society was simular to even Social Darwinism and could only be saved by his incoherent idea of God.
When I mentioned intesity of experience I am talking about a spectrum of intesity relative to it's level of complexity and hierarchal organization. Not that we have intesity and others do not.
When it comes to Jordan Peterson you have really taken a cheap shot and need to do your research. Have you listened to any of his interviews with leftist hosts? They attack all the same points you do against him and he addresses them all which come down to strawman ideological characterizations and ignorance of facts. Maybe your repulse against acknowledging inequality in nature and hierarchys is thinking that it means nature is all about power. This is not the case. Hierarchys about tyrannical power collapse in nature and can only be sustained by a cooperative leader at the top. For example if a group of animals doesn't like the leader two weaker ones can gang up on him, they don't do this with a cooperative leader.
Also in a past article of yours you posted a quote out of the context of a book showing marxs ontology is the same as Whiteheads as if to justify Marxism conclusions. The book itself is in favor of Talcott Parsons as the one who has best constructed a sociology out of Whiteheads work whose system can be used to reveal marxism and conflict Theorys incoherence. Being that it conflates allot of ideas, focuses exclusively on economics as some Absolute taken out of the context of the whole social system. Alienation is a consequence of specialization of labor and cannot be reversed. There are many subsystems involved in the Marxist critique while marxists conflate and simplify them all down to economics and alienation in labor. There are many conflicts other than class, gender, race and there is more than one way to look at society than interpreting everything as conflict.
Hi Kyle thanks for the comment. Just some brief responses here:
Graf 1: I never said Henning or Ferre addressed human societies; me likening human societies to a plant is my thing, I was just quoting Henning’s and Ferre’s thoughts about the living society known as a plant; imo I would describe cities this way too. (No comment on the Hartshorne thing, I don’t really care one or the other; I’m not a huge Hartshorne fan but was surprised to learn that he saw similarities between a plant and a human city as I did)
Graf 2: Peterson. I have watched a lot of Peterson’s interviews, yes, and read an adequate amount of his stuff. You’re correct in assuming that I don’t like how he picks various examples from nature to make a one-to-one analogy/case for inequality and hierarchy being intrinsic to our DNA or something… Peterson seems to imply that inequalities aren’t wrong, they’re natural. I mean I can do this shit too! Bonobo monkeys are our closest animal relatives, and unlike chimps they’re extremely egalitarian and peaceful (they’re the “make love not war” monkey! Seriously, look it up). Further, ancient humans were fiercely egalitarian, they shared everything (and if you tried to hoard wealth you were excommunicated from the group), including mates. Since women had multiple partners there was often no telling who the father was, thus the village actually did raise the children. It wasn’t until private property came on the scene, and men needed to know who’s kid was who’s in order to pass down their hoarded wealth, that women also became property.
Graf 3: It’s no secret that I am influenced by Marx’s thinking. I don’t naively believe Marx was right about everything though, I’m not a dogmatic orthodox marxist or anything, that’s an assumption on your part. I mean, I take your point that problems are often complex and we should be wary of conflating, essentializing, universalizing, and simplifying things, but at the same time Marx’s criticisms can’t be ignored or dismissed. Neither can the conclusions of both Marx and Whitehead that there are no real individuals standing outside of and prior to the relational nexus: each becomes a specific individual in and through relations to others. Nor is society something standing outside of and above the complex of social relations.
Thanks for the great dialogue, Kyle. I appreciate your thoughts.
Peterson specifically and multiple times has said that he is not justifying hierarchy he is merely pointing out that the problem is much much deeper than Capitalism. He agrees that hierarchy and inequality have their problems but his point is that it is impossible to have absolute equality. He is confused why people that claim to want to help are not fully addressing the problem but blaming capitalism. I looked up the Bonobo apes and they still have social hierarchy's. Also your ignoring the Pareto principle where 80% of the wealth will always be held by 20% of the people, and that this applies to pretty much everything in nature. By the way I learned about Pareto from researching Whitehead, Henderson, and Parsons. (not Peterson). Here is a Joe Rogan clip talking about Marx and Pareto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0iL0ixoZYo
It's impossible to have absolute equality so lets not even try, right? Capitalism is a huge part of the problem; not the only problem, of course, but it's a big problem, and it needs to be criticized and condemned and made better. We can address all the other problems too, but the problem of capitalist distribution of resources needs to be addressed. Period.
Again, I've watched lots of Peterson videos and his framework, to me, seems to be very neo-Darwinian in the sense that he appeals to nature to justify the status quo. I could be wrong but this is my take (and not only my take, he’s been thoroughly, and fairly, criticized by lots of academics). I'd like to see him start criticizing capitalism and fighting for the rights of the oppressed instead of, for example, citing that dumb study from Scandinavia that he really likes which seems to say that as societies are made more equal gender differences become more pronounced. Obviously the other, more nuanced, explanation for this is that a) occupational pay is institutionalized and isn’t changing as fast (so nurses ((traditionally a feminine job)) make less than engineers ((traditionally a masculine job)) even though they roughly require the same amount of schooling) and b) women in more oppressive countries have less opportunities to get out of oppression so they enter STEM areas which they may not want to enter but which are higher paying; this gives them more freedom to escape injustice. Conversely, women in more equal societies may be more likely to enter creative fields, which are lower paying and more risky, but these women have the freedom to do so because it is actually less risky for them in their more just society.
You're right about bonobos, they are our closest relatives and are peaceful, but I was thinking of Muriqui monkeys, they are non-hierarchical; early humans were very egalitarian too until private property came online...
The Pareto principle. You keep citing this as if it's some magical incantation or something but I'm not really sure why... haha! The pareto principle is literally describing a capitalist distribution of resources. This is an example of the is/ought fallacy: just because it is that way doesn’t mean it ought to be ;-)
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